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1994-08-27
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Subject: digest
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 11:11:43 +1000
From: Warwick Allison <warwick@cs.uq.oz.au>
Precedence: bulk
Rick Flashman:
>Kevin O'Donovan:
>> Click on a window border, or the window move bar (in the latter case
>> remembering that a click and a drag are different, of course)
>
>My concern is that you are now changing "previous" behavior.
Clicking on the title bar has always topped the window. Under X11, this is
also the case. What we are changing is that now clicks on things inside the
work area now actually work, rather than just causing the window to top.
Yes, this is a change of behaviour, but it is a change to a MORE logical
operation, so it is very easy for users to accept, especially since it
makes their life easier.
Evan K. Langlois wrote:
>
>========================================================================
>Really? What about objc_edit() which can't clip to a rectangle list?
>========================================================================
>
>Don't allow user to edit field unless entire editable field is completely
>visible (gotta walk lots of rectangles, very often).
Another approach is to do the edit field as a form - ie. when editing
it, use form_do just drawing the edit field. I haven't tried this yet,
but it seems feasible.
Michel Forget:
>Warwick:
>>(GEM treats focus==top, in the hope that it is far
>> more efficient to update a top window, but in reality, this is not the
>> case
>
>This is news to me; if you are updating the top window, you can use
>raster copies (because your work area is not obscured by anything). This
>makes it a trivial task. If you are not the top window, though, you have
>to walk the rectangle-list and redraw all kinds of little things.
Yes, it was suprising to me too. But it turns out you can still use raster
copies on partially obscured windows. And sometimes, the fact that some of
the area to raster-copy is obscured means the raster-copy goes faster, and
hence is faster. Net gain for top windows is very little.
BTW, MasterBrowse performs terribly when scrolled while it is not the
top window, redrawing stuff unnecessarily. Interestingly, this is one
program that SHOULD operate well as a background window, since it makes
sense for the user to run MasterBrowse on a document file, then manipulate
the application which that file documents while scrolling through the
document in the MasterBrowse window.
Evan K. Langlois wrote:
>3 - All graphics in windows (including window 0 with proper wind_set)
>...
IMO, applications should not use the desktop for its own. At the very
least, it should be configurable (Interface is a good example of this).
> 9 - No form_do() or other locking calls.
Alerts lock, and they *SHOULD* freeze the display until the user
responds (that's why they're called alerts!)
Waldi Ravens:
>I have no problem with modal dialogs for matters that need my
>full attention anyway.
Sometimes, a dialog will open that asks you a question, the answer to which
requires looking elsewhere on you machine. For example, a dialog might ask
`Enter phone number to dial:', and you'd like to go get the number from an
email message, or out of a database, etc.
It is difficult for the author of the application to know when this is the
case, so dialogs-in-windows is much easier.
Ken/Goemon/Gehenom/Dan Hollis:
>XAES (the reworked version of WinLIB PRO) is 238,592 bytes.
After all that complaning about size! GEM++ 1.99 is only 173,884 bytes.
(example.prg, which exercises most of the library compiles to 135010 bytes).
And I'll be the first to admit that GEM++ isn't intended for developing
small GEM applications.
To the scheme of top-AND-select: Why? Just select it. The only
reason I can imagine is that topping first means you never have to walk
the rectangle list when selecting objects. But your code must already
implement that anyway (for redraws), so there's no gain.
--
Warwick